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Chuck Austen pratar om X-men med Comixfan.
MARVEL-OUS X-IT: THE CHUCK AUSTEN INTERVIEW Post #1
Writer Chuck Austen, similarly praised and vilified by online fans for his work on Uncanny X-Men, Avengers, New X-Men and more for Marvel Comics, has been announced by the publisher as leaving the House of Ideas later this year (see 'CHUCK AUSTEN LEAVES XAVIER'S SCHOOL FOR GIFTED YOUNGSTERS'). One of the biggest announcements this year, what followed was yet another heated debate concerning the writer, who will continue his writing on Action Comics over at DC Comics and his upcoming self-published book WorldWatch (see 'THE WORLDWATCH IS WATCHING YOU').
ComiX-Fan caught up with Austen to find out more about his decision to leave, his thoughts on fan reaction to his work, and what the future has in store. Austen graciously responded, and certainly didn't pull any punches...
COMIX-FAN: First and foremost, what prompted the decision to leave not only the X-Men, but Marvel Comics in general?
CHUCK AUSTEN: As I've said before, I'm more a "mature" writer, and writing all ages is really tough for me. It's been hard all along, at both Marvel and DC, but Marvel's policies had changed recently more toward all-ages, and that was proving very difficult for me to scale back to. Those policies are across the board, so it's best for my sanity and theirs that I not take any more work at Marvel. It became a mutual decision.
CXF: How hard was it to walk away from the X-Men?
CA: Extremely. I was very happy working with {senior editor} Mike Marts, and I loved writing the characters. It's a great concept built for great stories of all kinds.
CXF: What will your last issue be?
CA: Issue #164. November or December, I believe, depending on double-shipping, or not.
CXF: What can fans expect from the remainder of your X-tenure?
CA: A lot of stuff. You know me, I never want to spoil anything. There will be some big things happening, big changes, life altering choices made by many of the characters that will play out in the new writer's run. A new Brotherhood. Some major violence. Six or seven deaths (laughs). Kidding.
CXF: It seems that for every positive voice supporting your work there were double the amount of negative voices. You made a very public exit from the online arena as a result, so what prompted you to return to doing interviews and the like?
CA: DC. They asked me to talk about and support Superman, and I felt obligated to support my Marvel work as well. Once DC says it's okay for me not to, I'll retreat again, but likely not with any announcement, this time. I'll just fade off.
CXF: Why is it you think that your work was targeted by so many detractors?
CA: Oh, lots of reasons. Because it's the "in" thing to do? Because there really aren't that many detractors, just a few who are really, really angry, irrational and relentless? Jealousy over me writing X-Men when they want to? Because sites allow them to post without checking the veracity or accuracy of their statements? Because this is an industry where the fans have been given the illusion of greater control over Marvel and DC's properties than they actually have? Because fans have been here longer than the latest creator, and these fans then therefore feel greater entitlement to these creations than the current creator? Because I say things that offend people in the online arena? Things I wouldn't think would offend anyone, but do?
I got off on the wrong foot by calling continuity "an albatross around the neck of creativity" in one of my first interviews. I thought that was a rather innocuous and benign statement at the time, and rather obvious to anyone who reads or writes comics. I still believe it to be true, without question. But you'd have thought I'd said we should roast babies and drink their blood (laughs). Interestingly, I'm more faithful to continuity than a lot of writers, but I'm held accountable for my interviews, not my actual work, usually.
One of the biggest problems I've encountered seems more because I'm willing to make changes to personalities in long-beloved characters. It seems to be the focus of a lot of reviews. But I did it in order to create what I think is a more interesting character mix for stories and chemistry. That really ruins it for some long-term fans of those individual characters, people who used them as their personal icons, avatars, have websites devoted to them, and have collected all their appearances, and that generated a lot of hatred. They love their particular character and do not want to see them messed with in any way. I still get hate mail about changing Bobby, Polaris, or Juggernaut, and they're two of the most popular characters among new readers.
When I was brought in to Uncanny, I was told the industry was dying, and I was given a mandate by Bill Jemas, Joe Quesada, and my then editor Mark Powers to increase sales. Period. That was my only criteria to meet. Do it, or you're gone, was more or less the instruction given. And it's a business, the characters are owned by the company, so I got down to it.
I looked at what the most popular, highest selling era was for X-Men, and it was during Claremont's first tenure. One of the reasons I will always be in awe of Chris, is he, hands down, has sold more copies of X-Men than anyone ever will. Me, Grant, Casey, whoever. He's sold MILLIONS. Millions and millions. And what he did best, during that time, was chemistry. Characters in conflict, with each other, with others, and a lot of soap dropped in. One of the reasons "Days of Future Past" was such a great story for me, wasn't just the possible future it showed, but that Kitty and Colossus had become lovers. Whoa! That was HUGE, when I read it, and a bit unexpected. Brilliant.
So I wanted to bring some of that back. It meant changing the characters, and creating conflict and chemistry. Interestingly, I brought in a lot of new readers who had never read X-Men before, and brought back a lot of readers who had left. Sales increased, overall, as far as I know, and I made some long time fans hate me, and a few quit the book. At least online. C'est lavie. I did what I was asked. It worked for some. It didn't for others. But at 3 bucks a pop, and with cumbersome continuity to deal with, I think it's too much an uphill battle to make these things appeal to a wider, general audience, really, and so maybe appealing to the fans is the only way to have relative success. Events, variant covers, all the things that are coming back. Maybe these trolls are correct.
Of course, some of my online detractors are just people who don't like my writing. Which is fine. There's enough variety out there for everyone. Why some of them had to go online and threaten my life, I'll never know. You don't like my writing? I just saved you 3 to 6 bucks a month, why are you yelling at me (laughs)? Say thanks and spend the money on Seaguy (laughs)!
CXF: Did any of your stories change from what you had originally envisioned? If so, why did they ultimately change and what would have been different had you been able to see them published as you'd originally written them?
CA: Oh, of course they changed. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. It's part of work-for-hire, and working with editors. Things change, or are changed, all the time, right up until the book prints. Outlines are given, characters asked to be included, directions mandated, movies need to be tied-in to.
I'll give you an example of how it worked well, and how the process, both positive and negative, works when you have flexibility on both sides, and I won't get into any bad examples because that's between me and Marvel. This is the best example I can give because it's one of my favorite stories, along with Kurt's birth. Hmm. Both drawn by Sean Phillips. That can't be coincidence, can it?
My first Northstar story, "Fall Down Go Boom," was originally about Northstar trying to save a baby. An infant. It had a very different ending, and was just not as strong. Mark Powers, my first editor, read it and said, "You know, I think the story would be stronger if the kid were beginning adolescence, and Northstar could talk to him." Of course! It was a brilliant note, and it made the story so much richer and more potent than if I had written it as it was.
But on the side of negative notes, after I'd finished my re-write, Mark originally thought we should save the kids life, in the end. His feeling was, Xavier would find a way out. I told him that wasn't the story. The story was about a man who considered himself infallible - failing - and changing because of it. We discussed it briefly, and Mark realized he had fallen into what he called "a continuity trap" where so much was possible in the Marvel Universe that he had a hard time conceiving of a way Xavier, or the X-Men, or anyone, wouldn't find some solution. When we began working together on the X-Men, it was actually Mark who suggested that it would be interesting if we could see Xavier and the rest screw up and fail once in a while. Everyone had become so perfect. Mark was a great editor, and he was absolutely right, and because he was flexible, the story improved on all levels. That was the big trap of continuity. When you have gods floating over New York, time travel and flying cars, what's not imaginable? What's special and unique?
What will surprise the reader?
This is another reason many people hate me online. I insist on surprising the reader, and a lot of people don't want to be surprised. They want familiar and comfortable, "happy mutants" who always win in the end. I don't write that way. To me, that makes for boring stories (laughs). I just ruffle feathers all around.
CXF: Were there any X-Men or Avengers stories that you had planned that won't be seeing print? If so, what were some of the things fans would have read?
CA: Oh, sure. There are a few scripts that Marvel has in house that likely won't see print, for one reason or another. One is the very first script I ever wrote. It brings back the elves from Uncanny #102 (laughs). Another is one that was drawn, but the art wasn't approved for publication. A Jubilee story.
Obviously I can't talk about plans I had for characters I'm using now, because that would tip things I don't want revealed, yet. But when I was still on Uncanny, I had an idea for Warren to become, truly, "The Archangel" where he is the head of a group of Angels who all go to live in his Aerie. People begin to make pilgrimages to him, and the others, to be healed, and then a few begin worshipping them. I had a Sinister Death camp story that I had been leading up to, that had to be postponed because Frank Tieri began something similar in Weapon X. But it was a darker, grimier death camp. More Auschwitz-like. He would test mutants in horrific ways. He had Logan caged, and would injure him in various, horrible ways, then time and observe his healing process, making notes about what kind of injury took longer to heal, and which left scars, etc. Sinister also had Husk's skins pinned to a wall, where he would examine them. He would force her to change in various gruesome ways, and then save the skins, testing what made them pliable for removal when moments before they may have been a form of organic steel. Warren was caged in the center of the camp, a small cage, forcing his wings through the bars, and lying on his back in the mud, with another cage against his face, as he lay there, in the burning sun because Sinister considered him a useless form of mutantcy. A dead end. It was pretty dark and sick, actually (laughs). Now you see why I had a hard time writing within "all-ages" (laughs)!
There was one story I loved called "Ultimate X-Man" that was really horrifying. I wrote that on spec, knowing it would be a hard sell, and never got paid, so I may use that idea elsewhere. WorldWatch, maybe.
I had stories in Avengers going off for a year, or more. I think some of the names of the arcs gave it away. In "Atlantean Nation" Namor takes over the world. He was going to do what some Saudi insurgents are trying to do, now. He cuts off the flow of oil from the Middle East and brings the world to it's knees, then declares the oceans his territory, and none may cross, pollute, or fish there. If the pieces remained, we can see some lead-in to this in Namor's tensions with his subordinates in the first Invaders issue where they argue over supporting the "air-breathers" above his own people and subjects, the Atlanteans.
America has enough oil to last is a while, in reserve, and in it's own wells, but it will dwindle quickly, and tensions rise, as things begin to stop from lack of fuel and other nations become more desperate. Naturally, the Avengers have to stop Namor. This was the big crossover event tied in to #500.
After "Atlantean Nation," there was going to be a Giant Man/Goliath face-off over Jan that ended with everyone in forced therapy with Juggernaut (laughs). In another arc, Kelsey reveals herself to her children, and Brian Braddock's prediction begins to come true, as Martin reveals her, and everyone else's secret identities to an online friend who leaks it to the press. This leads to an "Identity Crisis" (laughs). There truly is a cosmic unconscious, out there. This reveal creates a serious problem for Ant-Man as a former convicted felon, as he becomes a target for blackmail through his daughter, and which leads to him betraying the Avengers in "Visions of Ultron" where he helps Ultron take over Vision's body, jettisoning Vision's personality, and Ultron takes out the Avengers.
Oh, and Captain America wound up in a relationship with Captain Britain. Look at my first issue where Hawkeye asks: "What is your type of woman, Steve?" And then we smash-cut to Kelsey. I wasn't writing Cap as gay (laughs). Martin and Kelsey eventually both get what they wished for in that first issue when Kelsey and Steve eventually fall in love, although the relationship was going to be tumultuous. A bit of a metaphor for US and British relations.
There was more, a Scarlet Witch story, and others I may still use, elsewhere. WorldWatch again, probably.
CXF: Looking back on your time with Marvel, what would you say were your most favorite books to work on and why?
CA: I enjoyed everything I did at Marvel. It was like playing with the toys you always loved as a kid, and could only look at through the window because you couldn't afford them. So on some level, it was all fun. If I had to pick a favorite, though, I loved working on Exiles, in particular. It's format is made for stories because anything is possible, and no one gets mad because you screwed up their favorite character (laughs). You're supposed to screw up their favorite character (laughs)! And it allowed me to be dark and edgy, which I love.
CXF: And consequently, what were your least favorite assignments and why?
CA: Well, I was freelance, so nothing was "assigned." I was asked, and I did them if I wanted to. I did turn down work, contrary to popular opinion (laughs). There were a number of projects I had no interest in, some of them re-writing other people's writing. I only took Captain America as a favor to Joe, although I really, really wanted to write Captain America, just not over someone else's ideas. I only did Eden's Trail because, as I understood it, they were going to flush the project without my involvement, and Steve Uy wanted my help, rather than see it flushed. And his art and storytelling are brilliant. Who wouldn't want to work on that project?
Of all the things I did at Marvel, Eden's Trail may have been my least favorite, mostly because it became so hateful, in the end. Uy got so angry, publicly. I thought I was doing Steve a favor, and I had such high hopes for it. If I'd known how he felt, I would not have gotten involved, and just let Marvel shelve it. Although I still think the work is good, and a fun read. Especially that first issue. So I still really like the end result quite a lot. Steve really is a brilliant storyteller and artist.
CXF: Who are the favorites out of all the characters you created?
CA: Sammy. Annie. Kelsey, as the new Captain Britain. They all had such heart, and were imperfect, in their own ways. I liked Kiwi Black, too. I wanted to do more with him. Jack White, the mutant lawyer for Xavier. He's named after, and looks like my father-in-law, who is a retired lawyer.
CXF: Do you worry about how they'll be handled after you've gone?
CA: Oh, sure. I cringe at the thought. But that's work-for-hire. I screwed up someone else's characters. Now someone gets to screw up mine (laughs). Maybe kill them all (laughs). On the same page (laughs).
CXF: So what's next in store for you? Will there be more work at DC? And how's Worldwatch panning out?
CA: More work at DC. Humanoids, hopefully. TokyoPop. I truly, truly believe in the manga format and content as a way to reach a wider audience. I've got a lot more going. I rarely stand still.
And WorldWatch is going great. The art is tremendous, and I'm enjoying the story, although at this point, I'm just anxious for it to come out. I've lived with it for over a year. Just a couple more weeks.
CXF: Speaking of WorldWatch, who's it being published through and what date is the first issue coming out?
CA: It's being published by me, or rather my imprint, Wild and Wooly Press, and it's coming out as soon as it gets through the printer, hopefully before San Diego, with 2 and 3 following closely behind. My goal is the second week of every month. The first one's always the slowest.
CXF: Any final words for those X-fans who supported you along the way, and any parting shots for those that didn't?
CA: I would like to say thanks to those who supported me. I loved working for Marvel, and writing the X-Men, I'm glad you enjoyed it, and I'm sorry it became so difficult to be a fan of mine, online (laughs). I had so many of you come up to me at cons and say you didn't want to say anything positive or defensive of me for fear of being attacked, and I don't blame you. I'm glad you enjoyed what I did, and taking gut-shots from trolls is not part of the job description. Another reason the detractors outnumber the positive posters. I wish I could have found a way to stay. You were great, and a lot of you were a blast to talk to online. I truly wish things could have worked out differently. Hopefully you'll enjoy the next writer as much, or more.
In closing, though, I will say this about online sites. At some point, you're going to have to start policing yourselves better. There are laws curtailing "free speech," most of them centered around libel, slander, and defamation of character. Many of the things said about me online certainly qualify. Since online sites are technically "publishers" and purport yourselves to be, you fall under those laws curtailing free speech, and at some point, will be held accountable for the things you allow people to say in your public forums. You are publishing their comments in the strictest sense of the word by allowing them to remain publicly viewable on your sites. As I said, my father-in-law was a lawyer.
Wishing AIDS on people, threatening their lives, lying about them in threads, even though you, as sites, didn't write them, you are technically publishing them, and are accountable, just as any major magazine like Time, or Newsweek. Someday, and it's happening already to a degree, creators are going to stop talking to you, and someone with money is going to come along and close you down for the things you allow to be said under your banners. It's not a threat, it's a guarantee. Too many creative types are being reviled and humiliated at these sites by trolls, and there will be a backlash. There always is. As one of the most hated people on these sites I can tell you, someone with less restraint and more money than I, will get angry and look into the legalities of what you are doing, and find there is legal action to be taken.
But more importantly, seriously think about it. Why would you want to make this such a hateful and mean-spirited experience? If you want to grow the industry, these angry, bile-spewing trolls are truly in the minority, they help you not at all, and as a small, dying industry, by letting them spew you're not helping it to grow by making it so unpleasant for professionals and new people to come in here.
Or, maybe that's really what you want. "If you can't stand the heat," and all. To be alone with your hobby, and people who aren't as "intelligent" or "insightful" as you, hidden away from those who disagree with you, or are too wimpy to know what's true. Is that what you really want? Or is this a business you hope to make a really good living from? Because if it is, you're going about growing it all wrong. Having professionals come to your sites draws the curious newbie, fans, and potentially sales. Having trolls come to your sites does not.
This is supposed to be a hobby we're all into for fun. It certainly doesn't make us more popular with the opposite sex, or get us on television much, except as something to be amused by (BIFF, POW, WHAM). But it's become like baseball, where some people consider that part of buying a ticket is the right to throw drinks, or more dangerous things, at the opposing team. Why not remove these people from the park so the rest of us can enjoy the game, and more people will want to be here? Just because someone is mean, obnoxious and insistent, doesn't mean they're right. Put enough of these people in one room, all the nice folks will leave, and eventually they'll even wear on each other. Is that what you want? An ultimately empty room?
CXF: Whilst we're on the topic, I want to take this opportunity to publicly apologize to you about the handling of the situation on the ComiX-Fan forums that resulted in you stepping away from the site...
CA: Thanks, Eric. You were always a good guy, and I never held you responsible. It would have been damn near impossible to stem the tidal wave of hate that came my way. But I appreciate the apology.
It's an odd thing. I've always been a strong proponent of free speech, obviously, since I once did porn comics, and never considered anything wrong with it. Still don't. Super hero comics are often more pornographic to me because of the levels of violence they gleefully roll around in, while deriding love and affection. There's just something bass-ackwards about that.
I've had my lines I would never cross, but that didn't mean I never believed that others shouldn't be able to cross them. My beliefs have been seriously tested by this whole Internet hatred thing, and I'm sorry I couldn't continue with ComiX-Fan. You gave me a great opportunity to interact directly with fans, and for the most part, it was a great experience. There are some awesome fans out there, very respectful, and delighted just to have a chance to chat with the pros, and they often had tremendous input on the stories I wrote, simply by being respectful in their approach. Yes, I will admit to giving some fans what they wanted to see, when they asked nicely, and I thought it made a good story. It's always a very vocal and angry few who ruin it for the rest of us. Usually the ones who would melt like butter under a fraction of the hatred and bile I received. I know of a few who are still whining and complaining about ONE remark I made to them, or someone they knew personally, over a year ago. And looking back on it, I was fairly mild in those remarks, and those people deserved what they got.
